Nate mentioned quite a while back that we would eventually get around to reviewing Pliny the Elder. He said this in his article on hops, which is worth a read. Anyway, let me say that I’m not intentionally iconoclastic and that I simply don’t go looking for beers to denigrate. In fact, I’m not going to denigrate this one…but, for some people, rating this IPA as anything other than spectacular is exactly that. Beer Advocate rates this as an A+ overall, with the low rating being a C. This sort of disparity can happen anywhere. In fact, Nate and I disagreed on Red Rye P.A. Additionally, it’s actually nice to see some swings on a beer sometimes because you are aware that it is simply not being accepted uncritically. I don’t normally link to other people’s reviews, but I think Hedonist Beer Jive’s title says it all, “A very good overrated beer.” I agree 100% on the title. Onto my review…and I have some different thoughts on it (taste-wise) than the Hedonist.
Pour: A golden body, which remained pretty active, sat below a white and somewhat quickly dissipating head. There isn’t a great deal to say about the body of Pliny.
The Nose: Things began to perk up here. As a Double IPA (and typical of American IPAs), Pliny was pretty hoppy in approach. The piney/grapefruity tones that are typical of many Cascade hopped beers seemed to be fairly pronounced. However, there was a lot more to the hop profile than I’ve seen described elsewhere. Personally, I caught some tropical fruit tones to the beer (passion fruit and pineapple?). Some residual sweetness and a touch of grains also made their way to my nostrils.
The Taste: Nate and I both have repeated on numerous occasions that we don’t mind hops so long as there is a nice malt level to back it. Fortunately, Pliny meets my criteria for using the hops that it did. Of course, those hops really dominated the immediate taste profile. Pliny was touched with sweetness and a nice semi-full mouth-feel. The sweetness increased the fruity (pineapple/passion fruit) perception, which came from the hops, on the palate. Russian River’s offering had some fair caramel grain tones that faded into a bitter finish. One thing that was conspicuously absent from the beer was the taste of its 8% ABV. That was well hidden in the brew.
Overall, Pliny is a very solid and good beer. Have I had better IPAs and Double IPAs? Absolutely. It’s funny, I’m not normally not a big IPA fan (anyone who has been or will be around the site much will know that). The fact that I normally don’t drink IPAs, I think, makes me more discriminating in my taste when I have one, so it’s not too often that I find an excellent one. All that to say, I think you can do better in the world of IPAs…but this is still very well done.
Mike’s Rating:
Overall Satisfaction: 
Among other IPAs: 
Among other Double IPAs:
You won’t get any scorn from me for not bowing to this beer’s hype. I thought it was a good beer (I rated it a B+ on beeradvocate), but it’s nowhere near the reputation it has. I find Hopslam to be an order of magnitude better, and several other DIPAs are much better as well. It’s far from dishwater, just not worthy of the constant praise it receives. Maybe it’s a matter of regional preferences?
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How could you not give it 5 stars! Blasphemy! Just kidding, I’ve never had the chance to try Pliny the Elder, but it’s nice to see an honest review and not someone jumping on a bandwagon. Not that I’m saying a lot of the BA reviews are on the bandwagon, but I believe that all the positive reviews can subconsciously taint an opinion.
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I agree with you. We tend to follow the herd when it comes to the reviews. I only look at other ones once I’ve finished my reviews. I can be brutally honest about reviews…just look at my Lienenkugel’s Berry Weisse review. It was a good beer but not worth all the hype. On the other side, I think that Dark Lord, which is high on the BA list, is worth all the hype. But it’s because I drank and enjoyed it.
Thanks for stopping by Bogie. We love interaction on the site…especially when it’s cordial (even if you were to disagree).
Howard, I agree on both accounts (Hopslam and regional preferences). You bring a fresh and interesting perspective with the thought that it might be a regional preference. I think you’re on to something.
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I really do love this beer, and when i was in san diego a few weeks ago, i drank this more than anything else (followed closely by the duchesse–i’m a sucker for a good sour). i think the big part of the the hype is that it’s something not everyone can get. we heard about it for years, then, miracle of miracles, it’s available in bottles. those of use east of CA have to either travel to get it or rely on beer trades. Zymurgy’s readers rated it the best beer this year, beating the 90 min’s 2 year reign.
what does that really tell us though? if you look at the top beers every year, the lists are populated mostly with EXTREME BEERS!!!!111!!!one! (emphasis added for absurdity). some of these beers deserve to be there, but some are there just because they’re extreme. does pliny belong there? absolutely. for it’s extreme use of hops? perhaps. it’s definitely a very well crafted IIPA, made by the man who arguably invented the style. is it the best? perhaps not. i’ve had several others that rank up there. Hop Stoopid is a good one. Pliny the Younger is even better.
so, all that to say, good review
and i really do hope that the TSA guy at reagan national took those 4 bottles of pliny home, rather than trashing them since i got to the airport too late to check it. that, friends, was a tragedy.
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Pliny the Elder… good, but not my favorite. Rogue did an outstanding job with their I2PA. It is probably my favorite of the style. Hophenge from Deschutes is another excellent entry in this category. Both beers have a great hop nose and a malty body for a wonderfully balanced beer.
Skewing the balance way off on the hoppy side, Stone does an admirable job with their Ruination IPA. This one packs a major hop punch… not for the faint of hop.
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quite frankly this is one of the best DIPA’s I’ve had, but I’m a sucker for the strong cotton candy bubble gum aroma. I would drink it again if I could get Russian River here in Jersey. But with an over saturated IPA/IIPA/DIPA market there are a ton of good IPA’s out there left to be tried and If you are not trying them your missing out. I loved the Victory Hop Wallop and Wild Devil, DFH 90 min and burton baton, long trial dipa, and quite a few others and a shelf full of other IPAs left to try.
My long winded blithering point is, try the hype, see if it lives up, and move onto something else!
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Brian,
I’m sorry to hear about your loss. I do think it’s a good beer. I personally happen to like 90 min better. I think the point about “what does that really say” is a good one. Zymurgy readers have some really weird favs and good breweries. I get it too and find myself puzzled at times. I’d like to try Pliny the Younger. Thanks for the interaction.
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Tex,
There are so many good examples out there that it’s hard to keep up. I’ve had multiple ones that I like better than Pliny. Some things are simply preferential. I think most of us here can agree that it is a quality brew (and that seems, to me, to be the point).
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Hey Simply,
I think all of us would do well to take your point…try the hype. That was sort of what I was getting at with the Dark Lord. Some things live up and some don’t. The only way to find out is to try it for yourself. That has become a mantra on the site.
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Beer_Scientist It’s a point I preach every week on my Beer Brawl Podcasts, everyone has a different palette, not everyone is going to like the same beer. You need to try them for yourself, decide what you like.
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We pound that pulpit as well. I hate when people tell others what to drink or not. I make an exception for mega brews.
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Very fair and balanced, and very much in line with my experience of the beer. The hype machine certainly drives the allure around this one, but it is a solid IPA.
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I think it’s fair. Some people want to twist my arm to make this a 5 star rating. I can’t do it. I really do think it is a good beer…just not what people say it is.
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@beer_scientist: You’ve really had people try to convince you to change your rating? That’s absurd! Since when was it required for everyone to have the same opinion on something?
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I think in Fascist regimes. You should see some of the stuff that people write to others. On another sight’s Bigfoot Barely-Wine review (I think Simply beer) this guy calls him f&%k based on his review. You get all kinds of crazy people.
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Hold on there Beer_scientist, you might want to check that review before writing something like that!
http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2009/08/02/review-of-sierra-nevada-bigfoot-barleywine
Here is my comment:
“I’m with you on this one! BUT, I bet in 2 years when the hops have become an underlying flavor, this will be a great beer. I just did a Barleywine Beer Brawl™ (http://www.simplybeer.com/blog/2009/07/29/beer-brawl%e2%84%a2-20-barleywine/) What we found is the Barleywines that were 2-3 years old, were consistently a full grade better then the current production year. If you can, find a 2007 version of the Bigfoot and I bet you might have a different opinion.
I also noticed that rogue and schlafly just released there 2008 Barleywines. Unlike Sierra Nevada, they aged the beer for a year before releasing it to the public. That will have a huge difference in taste.”
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SimplyBeer: Beer scientist wasn’t saying that you said that in your comment, but he thought somebody had said that in a comment to you on your blog.
“On another sight’s Bigfoot Barely-Wine review”
We’ve gotten to know you by now to know you wouldn’t say such a crass thing!
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SImply beer,
That is totally what I meant…I thought some joker put that in a note on your site. I would never be a jerk like that. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. We welcome your comments and appreciate them. Even if you had disagreed, we still would have appreciated input.
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[...] The Taste: As all signs pointed, this selection drank like a strong Flemish Brown sour. Surprisingly, the alcohol was not overly hot, but there was a bourbon quality lent from the oak and alcohol. A medium mouth-feel helped to balance out the dry finish. And although true for the nose, there was little remaining sweetness to the brew on the taste. However, the sour red cherry and pineapple fruits could have been interpretated as such. Those sour currants mixed with that lactic acid produced proved to be a wonderful pucker. Overall, I think this a terrific beer. It is everything that a good sour ought to be. It puckers, it tingles, it excites. In fact, a guy I work with shared the price of the bottle with me, and we drank it together. He’d never had a sour before and he was blown away. He simply kept exclaiming that he didn’t know beer could be like this. It was rewarding to hear him say that I helped open his eyes to a whole new world of beer. Among the everyday brews that flood the market, this may be an epiphany. It’s my favorite Russian River beer thus far (yes, more than Pliny). [...]
[...] discussed in the past how at times, certain beers achieve cult status, simply because in a viral sort of way, the herd deems one beer “the best,” and the intrepid reviewer would hate to disseminate a contrary opinion. Now, some beers are the [...]
[...] Actually, it was pretty drinkable, and I’ll say from the outset that I like it more than Pliny the Elder. A decent mouth-feel, despite the lack of CO2, helped prop the brew up. After all I’ve [...]