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	<title>Comments on: HR 4278&#8230;Yeah, It&#8217;s Fair</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/</link>
	<description>We love beer, we thank heaven.  Begrudgingly, we admit we are not the authority on all things &#34;beer,&#34; but we know our fair share.  Enjoy the good brew with us; correct us where we&#039;re wrong.</description>
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		<title>By: Scott-TheBrewClub</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-217462</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott-TheBrewClub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 16:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-217462</guid>
		<description>Great post and discussion!  Don&#039;t have much to add except that its certainly good news for the small brewers and not surprising at all that the big guys are against it.  One can&#039;t expect the big guys to suddenly forget they are running a business and not a charity organization and will leverage any advantage.

Besides, we need that federal agency that approves beer labels to stay in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and discussion!  Don&#8217;t have much to add except that its certainly good news for the small brewers and not surprising at all that the big guys are against it.  One can&#8217;t expect the big guys to suddenly forget they are running a business and not a charity organization and will leverage any advantage.</p>
<p>Besides, we need that federal agency that approves beer labels to stay in business.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Ostrander</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-217390</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Ostrander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-217390</guid>
		<description>The Federal excise rates are listed in the Brewers Almanac published by the Beer Institute. 1944 and 2009. All kinds of data - quantity, import, export, by state, etc.
 
Available at http://www.beerinstitute.org/statistics.asp?bid=200</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Federal excise rates are listed in the Brewers Almanac published by the Beer Institute. 1944 and 2009. All kinds of data &#8211; quantity, import, export, by state, etc.</p>
<p>Available at <a href="http://www.beerinstitute.org/statistics.asp?bid=200" rel="nofollow">http://www.beerinstitute.org/statistics.asp?bid=200</a></p>
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		<title>By: nate</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216879</link>
		<dc:creator>nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216879</guid>
		<description>@Sean, I am not anti tax either, just anti LOTS of tax due to spending beyond our means.  

@Bob, thanks for the correction...that&#039;s what I get for taking and legitimate news syndicate at face value.  Could I have your source?  I would love to read it...currently doing research on Toledo brew history myself...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sean, I am not anti tax either, just anti LOTS of tax due to spending beyond our means.  </p>
<p>@Bob, thanks for the correction&#8230;that&#8217;s what I get for taking and legitimate news syndicate at face value.  Could I have your source?  I would love to read it&#8230;currently doing research on Toledo brew history myself&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Ostrander</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216814</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Ostrander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216814</guid>
		<description>You are right that excise taxes were all about war. But not the Revolutionary War. While researching a book on Indiana beer history I&#039;ve found:

The first National liquor tax was in 1790. That one started the Whiskey Rebellion. This was on spirits, not beer.

The first National beer tax was in 1862 at $1 per barrel. This was to help finance the Civil War. It was lowered to 60 cents in 1863 and raised back to $1 in 1864. (although a 7.5% discount was allowed for leakage).

In 1989 National tax was raised to $2 (for the Spanish American War).

Lowered to $1.60 in 1901 and back to $1 in 1902.

Raised to $1.50 in 1814 and $3 in 1817 (Debts following another war with England).

In 1919 it was raised to $6 (yep on Prohibition beer - not the near beer but the small amount that was brewed to fill prescriptions).

After Prohibition (1933) it became $5 on beer under 3.2% ABW, $6 on real beer. This became a flat $5 on all beer in 1934.

In 2939 total excise collected on beer was $140 million.

1940 - $6
1942 - $7 (WWII)
1944 - $8
1951 - $9

In 1969 total beer excise exceeded $1 billion.

In 1977 small brewers got a break. If under 2,000,000 bbls the excise was $7, It stayed at $9 for all others.

1991 - The $7 rate continued for the first 60,000 bbls produced by breweries that made under 2 million barrels. But the big guys were hit with an $18 rate. (Think Gulf War).

In 2008 $3.777,913,000 was collected in beer excise tax.


Here in Indiana:

Indianapolis started to issue brewery licenses in 1891 and collected over $65,000 in taxes before the law was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. That law was repealed in 1900 and a wholesaler’s license was substituted, raising $12,000 per year. This law was also deemed invalid by the courts.

A beer and liquor excise tax was put into place after prohibition. 5 cents per gallon.
Beer wholesalers that imported beer from another state had to pay an additional license fee of $1,500 and a post a bond of $10,000. These licenses are limited in number to 50 but only 13 were taken (as it turns out, given to friends of the party or sold). This led to Michigan outright banning beer from Indiana. Long and interesting story.

Indiana lowered the excise tax to 3-1/3 cents per gallon in 1935. They raised it back to 4 cents in 1939 and to 4-3/4 cents in 1941 to pay for local liquor boards.

The Republican lead by a resurgent temperance movement raised excise to 8 cents plus a 3/4 cent enforcement charge in 1945.

The 2% sales tax in 1963 included all alcohol - including a tax on the excise tax portion.

In 1973 the excise was upped to 10.75 cents per gallon and the enforcement charge was still tacked on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right that excise taxes were all about war. But not the Revolutionary War. While researching a book on Indiana beer history I&#8217;ve found:</p>
<p>The first National liquor tax was in 1790. That one started the Whiskey Rebellion. This was on spirits, not beer.</p>
<p>The first National beer tax was in 1862 at $1 per barrel. This was to help finance the Civil War. It was lowered to 60 cents in 1863 and raised back to $1 in 1864. (although a 7.5% discount was allowed for leakage).</p>
<p>In 1989 National tax was raised to $2 (for the Spanish American War).</p>
<p>Lowered to $1.60 in 1901 and back to $1 in 1902.</p>
<p>Raised to $1.50 in 1814 and $3 in 1817 (Debts following another war with England).</p>
<p>In 1919 it was raised to $6 (yep on Prohibition beer &#8211; not the near beer but the small amount that was brewed to fill prescriptions).</p>
<p>After Prohibition (1933) it became $5 on beer under 3.2% ABW, $6 on real beer. This became a flat $5 on all beer in 1934.</p>
<p>In 2939 total excise collected on beer was $140 million.</p>
<p>1940 &#8211; $6<br />
1942 &#8211; $7 (WWII)<br />
1944 &#8211; $8<br />
1951 &#8211; $9</p>
<p>In 1969 total beer excise exceeded $1 billion.</p>
<p>In 1977 small brewers got a break. If under 2,000,000 bbls the excise was $7, It stayed at $9 for all others.</p>
<p>1991 &#8211; The $7 rate continued for the first 60,000 bbls produced by breweries that made under 2 million barrels. But the big guys were hit with an $18 rate. (Think Gulf War).</p>
<p>In 2008 $3.777,913,000 was collected in beer excise tax.</p>
<p>Here in Indiana:</p>
<p>Indianapolis started to issue brewery licenses in 1891 and collected over $65,000 in taxes before the law was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. That law was repealed in 1900 and a wholesaler’s license was substituted, raising $12,000 per year. This law was also deemed invalid by the courts.</p>
<p>A beer and liquor excise tax was put into place after prohibition. 5 cents per gallon.<br />
Beer wholesalers that imported beer from another state had to pay an additional license fee of $1,500 and a post a bond of $10,000. These licenses are limited in number to 50 but only 13 were taken (as it turns out, given to friends of the party or sold). This led to Michigan outright banning beer from Indiana. Long and interesting story.</p>
<p>Indiana lowered the excise tax to 3-1/3 cents per gallon in 1935. They raised it back to 4 cents in 1939 and to 4-3/4 cents in 1941 to pay for local liquor boards.</p>
<p>The Republican lead by a resurgent temperance movement raised excise to 8 cents plus a 3/4 cent enforcement charge in 1945.</p>
<p>The 2% sales tax in 1963 included all alcohol &#8211; including a tax on the excise tax portion.</p>
<p>In 1973 the excise was upped to 10.75 cents per gallon and the enforcement charge was still tacked on.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Inman</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216813</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Inman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216813</guid>
		<description>Considering ABInBev is willing to toss women in orange attire into jail to protect a sponsorship monopoly, I tend to be a tad suspicious of their motives.  

Taxes are always thought of as a negative, especially by the people with the ability to pay them.  But these taxes fund the Small Business Administration, cities large and small and the agency that approves beer labels.  They also filled a pothole that I kept running into every morning.

My suggestions:
ABInBev and the rest of the industrial beer world should shut up and pay their share of taxes. 
Form a rational tax system to promote new company creation and new hiring.  Incentivize people to take that risk and open a business.

Or they could hire Thank Heaven for Beer to revise the alcohol laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering ABInBev is willing to toss women in orange attire into jail to protect a sponsorship monopoly, I tend to be a tad suspicious of their motives.  </p>
<p>Taxes are always thought of as a negative, especially by the people with the ability to pay them.  But these taxes fund the Small Business Administration, cities large and small and the agency that approves beer labels.  They also filled a pothole that I kept running into every morning.</p>
<p>My suggestions:<br />
ABInBev and the rest of the industrial beer world should shut up and pay their share of taxes.<br />
Form a rational tax system to promote new company creation and new hiring.  Incentivize people to take that risk and open a business.</p>
<p>Or they could hire Thank Heaven for Beer to revise the alcohol laws.</p>
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		<title>By: THFBeer_nate</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216763</link>
		<dc:creator>THFBeer_nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216763</guid>
		<description>Great point Mike...The macros are happy to pay the big taxes in exchange for lobbying power in Washington, in my view.  Were they exempt, they&#039;d loose it as such and we&#039;d see a more evenly distributed market share, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point Mike&#8230;The macros are happy to pay the big taxes in exchange for lobbying power in Washington, in my view.  Were they exempt, they&#8217;d loose it as such and we&#8217;d see a more evenly distributed market share, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: beer_scientist</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216759</link>
		<dc:creator>beer_scientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216759</guid>
		<description>The fact that this tax still exists is ridiculous.  Of course, when fiscal irresponsibility is the order of the government day, it&#039;s not particularly surprising this thing is still around.  The national debt should be enough to establish that much.  Of course the big guys don&#039;t support a more level playing ground and will draw on the tactics of &quot;look how much money comes from it&quot;.  They already have several distinct advantages.   http://thankheavenforbeer.com/category/the-cost-of-beer/ 

The truth is that something has to give.  The continual stretching of this industry could eventually create and practical neo-post-prohibition climate where, practically, the big boys keep on thriving while the smalls guys get run out again.  

Nicely done, Nate.  Thanks guys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that this tax still exists is ridiculous.  Of course, when fiscal irresponsibility is the order of the government day, it&#8217;s not particularly surprising this thing is still around.  The national debt should be enough to establish that much.  Of course the big guys don&#8217;t support a more level playing ground and will draw on the tactics of &#8220;look how much money comes from it&#8221;.  They already have several distinct advantages.   <a href="http://thankheavenforbeer.com/category/the-cost-of-beer/" rel="nofollow">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/category/the-cost-of-beer/</a> </p>
<p>The truth is that something has to give.  The continual stretching of this industry could eventually create and practical neo-post-prohibition climate where, practically, the big boys keep on thriving while the smalls guys get run out again.  </p>
<p>Nicely done, Nate.  Thanks guys</p>
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		<title>By: THFBeer_nate</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216729</link>
		<dc:creator>THFBeer_nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216729</guid>
		<description>Thanks PJ!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks PJ!</p>
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		<title>By: THFBeer_nate</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216728</link>
		<dc:creator>THFBeer_nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216728</guid>
		<description>I agree completely, Don.  Beer aside, I do believe that cutting a bit for the macros would be beneficial to the economy.  It&#039;s hard to say that, as I hate their product, but it jives with my (and big tex&#039;s) school of economic thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree completely, Don.  Beer aside, I do believe that cutting a bit for the macros would be beneficial to the economy.  It&#8217;s hard to say that, as I hate their product, but it jives with my (and big tex&#8217;s) school of economic thought.</p>
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		<title>By: PJ</title>
		<link>http://thankheavenforbeer.com/2010/06/23/hr-4278-yeah-its-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-216726</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thankheavenforbeer.com/?p=5217#comment-216726</guid>
		<description>Great article and insight! Let&#039;s get this thing passed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article and insight! Let&#8217;s get this thing passed!</p>
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